Hodowla a zdrowie

[AV]

<QUOTE author="Jaga"><s>

</s><QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s> <QUOTE><s>

</s>Można sobie gdybać i wszyscy hodowcy tak gdybają bo hodowla bez badań genetycznych to rosyjska ruletka

</QUOTE>

</QUOTE>
Takie są realia na dzień dzisiejszy w Polsce
Dziękuję Wojtkowi Lakondze za bardzo trafną wypowiedź
Początkowo byłam nastawiona sceptycznie do powstania Klubu BT (szczególnie forumowego), ale dochodzę do wniosku, że taki Klub z prawdziwego zdarzenia bardzo by się przydał bo może skończyłoby się zamiatanie śmieci pod dywan i hodowla miałaby jasne i proste zasady

</QUOTE>
Oczywiście wypowiedz Wojtka jest bardzo trafna. I co do tego nikt nie ma wątpliwości. Ale jak Piotrek Popoowicz napisał to samo, mówiąc o tym, że kryje przebadane suki przebadanymi psami, a i tak nie ma 100% pewności, że wszystkie szczenięta będą całkowicie zdrowe, to Pani krzyczy, żeby odsuwać całe linie. A jak Pani pisze o grzebaniu dalej w rodowodzie, a ja odpisuje o pokrewieństwie w Pani hodowli, to ripostuje to Pani, w ten sposób, że mowa była o najbliższym pokrewieństwie

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s>Zadawałam Pani pytania, na przykładach z Pani hodowli, pod kątem Pani wypowiedzi na forum Nie wiem który raz z kolei powtarzam to zdanie Ale najwidoczniej nie doczekam się prostych odpowiedzi, bez zbędnego mącenia..

</QUOTE>
Miałam to szczęście lub nieszczęście poruszyć pewne <B><s></s>ogólne </B> kwestie na forum i zadawanie pytań tylko mojej osobie uważam za śmieszne, gdyż w porównaniu z innymi potentatami hodowlanymi jestem mały pikuś
Widać jednak, że szczekanie tego małego pikusia bardzo wielu osobom jest co najmniej nie miłe, ale jak mówi przysłowie "Uderz w stół to nożyce się odezwą"

[Dorota]

<QUOTE author="Jaga"><s>

</s>
W tym temacie ja nie robiłam personalnych wycieczek, natomiast na tym forum jest całe morze różnych wiadomości i całe mnóstwo "smakowitych kąsków"

</QUOTE>
A fee P.Halino tak mijać się z prawdą
1/czy dla Pani personalna wycieczka to wymienienie z imienia i nazwiska,czy wystarczy tylko o czymś Pani i tej osobie wiadomym wspomnieć ot tak sobie w swojej wypowiedzi?
2/z całym szacunkiem w Pani hodowli zdarzyły się i psy z chorym sercem,i nerkami i nawet wnętrostwo a jak by dobrze poszukać to może jednak i jakaś chora wątroba
Oczywiście zaraz Pani powie,że to na pewno wina psa,ale nie ma tak łatwo przecież jest jeszcze przywoływana ty przez Panią cały czas kłaniająca się genetyka!
Świat wcale nie jest taki duży jak się niektórym wydaje i przepływ informacji jest.
Cały czas miesza Pani do swoich wypowiedzi genetykę i badania genetyczne.
A te nawet u ludzi to dość skomplikowana sprawa.Bo genetyka ma to do siebie ,że jedną z jej głównych cech zmiennych są mutacje.
Skoro kilka osób mówi Pani,że czas trochę przystopować w swoich zapędach to może czas się nad tym zastanowić.

[Timar]

Pani Halino, od pewnego czasu mam wrażenie, że wogóle, nie wie Pani o czym Pani pisze i mówi. Podzielam zdanie AV co innego Pani robi, a co innego mówi. Z tego co wiem, postępuje tak większość hodowców, ale tylko nieliczni występuję tak oficjalnie. Już wiemy, że Pani szczeniaki, nie sa chore na serce, watrobę, głuchotę itp. Prosze mi w takim razie powiedzieć ile z pani szceniąt - ile z tych urodzonych u Pani psów - miało robione jkiekolwiek badania??? Na jakiej podstawie twierdzi Pani, że że są one zdrowe?

Już mi się niedobrze robi czytając Pani posty, ile razy można napisać że Pani pieski są super, a inne są be, hodowcy niekompetentni, a forum składa się głównie z drażliwych tematów.

Ale jest też pozytywna stona przeczytanie Pani wypowiedzi. Po wejście na stronę oboczne kążenie wrotne znalzłam - dzięki Pani - kilka bardzo ciekawych stron

Chora maltanka, dla tych co lubią się nieco rozczulić. Polecam wieczorową porą

http://www.dogomania.pl/forum/f78/chora ... la-107826/ text="http://www.dogomania.pl/forum/f78/chora ... la-107826/http://www.dogomania.pl/forum/f78/chora ... la-107826/>

oraz propozycja eliminacji chorób genetycznych.

Już od dłuższego czasu, wydaje mi się, ze jest to jedyny sposób do walki z chorobami psów uwarunkowanych przez geny - Otwarta baza danych, czyli informacje o chorobach u konkretnych osobników oraz w danych liniach hodowlanych.

http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option ... 7&Itemid=6 text="http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option ... 7&Itemid=6http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option=com_co ... 7&Itemid=6>

http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option ... 6&Itemid=6 text="http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option ... 6&Itemid=6http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option=com_co ... 6&Itemid=6>

http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option ... 4&Itemid=6 text="http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option ... 4&Itemid=6http://www.wilczarz.pl/index.php?option=com_co ... 4&Itemid=6>

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s>Pani Halino pisała pani str 5 tego tematu
<QUOTE><s>

</s>Psy z dobrymi wynikami bywają również nosicielami wad i szczenięta mogą także zachorować po takich rodzicach (dziadkach)

</QUOTE>
więc dlatego pytałam co Pani przez to rozumie ale w dalszej częsci a propos Pani suki dowiedzieliśmy się że :
<QUOTE><s>

</s> Nawet jeżeli jest spokrewniona to nie znaczy,<B><s></s> że kiedykolwiek da chore szczeniaki </B>bo genetyka rządzi się swoimi prawami

</QUOTE>
Owszem genetyka rządzi się własnymi prawami ale kimże jesteśmy, Pani jest, żeby stwierdzać tak autorytatywnie że ta suka <B><s></s>nigdy nie da szczenięcia z jakąś chorobą genetyczną </B>

</QUOTE>
<B><s></s>Między kiedykolwiek a nigdy jest zasadnicza różnica </B>

[JonSnow]

Ja poproszę taką bazę, zapiszę się wtedy nawet do klubu. Poproszę też taką bazą w kontekście podejrzeń o CCD oraz opisowe (dla wybranych zmiennych) zachowanie matki, ojca i szczeniąt (test behawioralny)- nie ma powszechnie i tanio dostępnych badań genetycznych, ale na podstawie takiej wiedzy można wnioskować i zastanawiać się nad konkretnymi liniami hodowlanymi oraz swoimi następnymi kryciami, bez zaglądania innym hodowcom w talerz.

Da się takie coś zrobić - pewnie, że da, pod warunkiem, że się animozje i podział - moje zdrowe, lepsiejsze, twoje gorsze i stuknięte odstawi na bok.

To co, próbujemy?

Czy każdy hodowca prowadzi swoją lokalną bazę problemów zdrowotnych i behawioralnych szczeniąt, które wychodzą z jego hodowli? Oczywiście, aby nie było, że obwiniam hodowców o koklusz i ceny ropy, dla tych szczeniąt, z których właścicielami utrzymuje się kontakt. Bo ten kontakt się często urywa i wcale nie z winy hodowcy.

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="Dorota"><s>

</s><QUOTE author="Jaga"><s>

</s>
W tym temacie ja nie robiłam personalnych wycieczek, natomiast na tym forum jest całe morze różnych wiadomości i całe mnóstwo "smakowitych kąsków"

</QUOTE>
A fee P.Halino tak mijać się z prawdą
1/czy dla Pani personalna wycieczka to wymienienie z imienia i nazwiska,czy wystarczy tylko o czymś Pani i tej osobie wiadomym wspomnieć ot tak sobie w swojej wypowiedzi?
2/z całym szacunkiem w Pani hodowli zdarzyły się i psy z chorym sercem,i nerkami i nawet wnętrostwo a jak by dobrze poszukać to może jednak i jakaś chora wątroba
Skoro kilka osób mówi Pani,że czas trochę przystopować w swoich zapędach to może czas się nad tym zastanowić.

</QUOTE>
Personalnie to dla mnie personalnie, a wiele "smacznych kąsków" na tym forum jest pisane nie przeze mnie
Jak wiadomo jądra psa mogą schodzić w różnym czasie i moim psom wcześniej lub później zeszły
Co do serca to były to tylko podejrzenia i w konekwencji okazało się, że pies ma jednak zdrowe serducho
Co do nerek to jestem tym faktem bardzo zmartwiona bo niestety okazało się, że ojciec szczeniąt zszedł na nerki a o tym fakcie dowiedziałam się od osób postronnych bo dalej niektórzy twierdzą, że żyje i ma się znakomicie
Właściciele szczeniąt z tego miotu są również bardzo zmartwieni tym faktem, ponieważ zostali przeze mnie o tym poinformowani. Mam tylko nadzieję, że chociaż część miotu odziedziczy zdrowie po matce
Wątroby nie doszukałam się
Każdy z nas ma jakieś zapędy i nie sądzę, że zamykanie ust w sprawach hodowlanych cokolwiek zmieni - nie tędy droga

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="Timar"><s>

</s>Pani Halino, od pewnego czasu mam wrażenie, że wogóle, nie wie Pani o czym Pani pisze i mówi. Podzielam zdanie AV co innego Pani robi, a co innego mówi. Z tego co wiem, postępuje tak większość hodowców, ale tylko nieliczni występuję tak oficjalnie. Już wiemy, że Pani szczeniaki, nie sa chore na serce, watrobę, głuchotę itp. Prosze mi w takim razie powiedzieć ile z pani szceniąt - ile z tych urodzonych u Pani psów - miało robione jkiekolwiek badania??? Na jakiej podstawie twierdzi Pani, że że są one zdrowe?
Już mi się niedobrze robi czytając Pani posty, ile razy można napisać że Pani pieski są super, a inne są be, hodowcy niekompetentni, a forum składa się głównie z drażliwych tematów.

</QUOTE>
Mam kontak prawie ze wszystkimi właścicielami psów z mojej hodowli i ich opinie najbardziej się dla mnie liczą, bo dopóki
psy żyją i mają się dobrze to jest to dla mnie najważniejsze. Kiedyś nie było takiej powszechności badań, ale od pewnego czasu namawiam wszystkich właścicieli szczeniąt ode mnie na takie kontrolne badania. Zaprzyjaźnionym osobom nie mających psów ode mnie polecam również takie badania, niezaprzyjaźnionym również - wszystkim jak leci
Nie pisałam o swoich psach w kontekście i w porównaniu do innych psów, a część hodowców jest rzeczywiście niekompetentna - wystarczy poczytać i dobrze posłuchać co mówią
Nie napisałam, że forum składa się głównie z drażliwych tematów bo składa się z różnych, ale jak widać te drażliwe są najbardziej popularne

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="JonSnow"><s>

</s><B><s></s>Ja poproszę taką bazę, zapiszę się wtedy nawet do klubu. </B> Poproszę też taką bazą w kontekście podejrzeń o CCD oraz opisowe (dla wybranych zmiennych) zachowanie matki, ojca i szczeniąt (test behawioralny)- nie ma powszechnie i tanio dostępnych badań genetycznych, ale na podstawie takiej wiedzy można wnioskować i zastanawiać się nad konkretnymi liniami hodowlanymi oraz swoimi następnymi kryciami, bez zaglądania innym hodowcom w talerz.
Da się takie coś zrobić - pewnie, że da, pod warunkiem, że się animozje i podział - moje zdrowe, lepsiejsze, twoje gorsze i stuknięte odstawi na bok.
To co, próbujemy?
Czy każdy hodowca prowadzi swoją lokalną bazę problemów zdrowotnych i behawioralnych szczeniąt, które wychodzą z jego hodowli? Oczywiście, aby nie było, że obwiniam hodowców o koklusz i ceny ropy, dla tych szczeniąt, z których właścicielami utrzymuje się kontakt. Bo ten kontakt się często urywa i wcale nie z winy hodowcy.

</QUOTE>
<B><s></s>Ja się wtedy też zapiszę </B>

[Dorota]

Mam nadzieję że nie po babce która również zeszła na nerki.

Serduszko nadal jest chore to wiem od specjalisty kardiologa który opiekuje się psem z pani hodowli,a wnęter jakim był takim jest nadal.

Pani Halino weterynarze to wbrew pozorom nie tak zamknięty świat jak się pani wydaje a bulteriery chodzą do lecznicy więc niech pani siebie nie wybiela

i nie szkaluje innych bo się to pani w końcu odbije czkawką.

Kiedyś dawno temu można było z panią normalnie porozmawiać i ja apeluję

Dawna Halino Proszę wróć

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="Dorota"><s>

</s>Mam nadzieję że nie po babce która również zeszła na nerki.
Serduszko nadal jest chore to wiem od specjalisty kardiologa który opiekuje się psem z pani hodowli,a wnęter jakim był takim jest nadal.
Pani Halino weterynarze to wbrew pozorom nie tak zamknięty świat jak się pani wydaje a bulteriery chodzą do lecznicy więc niech pani siebie nie wybiela
i nie szkaluje innych bo się to pani w końcu odbije czkawką.
Kiedyś dawno temu można było z panią normalnie porozmawiać i ja apeluję
Dawna Halino Proszę wróć

</QUOTE>
Zaczyna Pani wyciąganie nieboszczyków sprzed nastu lat
Babka zeszła w wieku prawie 9 lat (nie tak młodo jak rep i jego brat) w konsekwencji częstych i ropnych zapaleń gruczołów mlekowych przy urojonych ciążach i leczona była wtedy przez wetów hormonami i nie tylko. Niestety niedobrze odbiło to się na całym jej organiźmie a szczególnie na nerkach. Powinna być pewnie wcześniej poddana sterylizacji to może pożyłaby sobie babcia trochę dłużej
Niestety człowiek uczy się na własnych błędach
Co do serduszka to mamy sprzeczne info bo owszem jest pod opieką kardiologa, ale właściciel twierdzi, że jest już wszystko ok z psem i wystarczą raz do roku przypominające kontrole. Tak się składa, że jest to także pies po tym repie zeszłym przedwcześnie na nerki Pocieszające bardzo jest jednak w tym to, że chociaż pies ma zalecenia kontroli serca raz do roku to nerki ma póki co zdrowe jak dzwon
Jeżeli chodzi o wnętra to mamy chyba sprzeczne info bo ja nie mam bladego pojęcia gdzie on jest i który to wet takich info udziela a drugi wet zaczyna rozbierać publicznie i tendencyjnie moje psy na czynniki pierwsze
To może wywleczmy wszystko na forum o wszystkich psach i o tym co dzieje sie w poszczególnych gabinetach weterynaryjnych w całej Polsce będzie dopiero fajna jazda - tylko co z etyka lekarską
Pomimo wszystko nie sprowokuje mnie Pani do takiej samej metody rozbierania na czynniki pierwsze cudzych psów oraz hodowli z których pochodzą pomimo dużej wiedzy jaką zebrałam przez 17 lat siedząc w temacie bulterierów
I w tym przypadku powraca tu Ta Dawna Halina

[Dorota]

Pani Halino rozumiem,że każdy zawsze chce mieć ostatnie zdanie jego prawo.

Można śmierć psa usprawiedliwiać na wiele sposobów jedni babeszjozą,inni trutką na szczury,lub inną toksyną,zadławieniem kością czarną wołgą .Pani zapaleniami gruczołu mlekowego,antybiotykami i brakiem wczesnej sterylizacji.

Wyciągać nauczyłam się poniekąd od pani.

Pierwszy raz słyszę,że chore serce się wyleczyło .

Dla mnie jest chore nadal skoro trzeba kontrolować.

Ja siedząc krócej mam również dużo informacji.

Taki sam wet jak hodowca,który czepia się tylko psów z innej hodowli.

To nie jest dawna Halina tylko to "straszne babsko",które ostatnio wszystkim zalazło za skórę.

P.S Nie widzę różnicy czy pies zszedł naście czy kilka lat temu jeżeli przyczyna była ta sama.

A etyka jaka jest każdy widzi pani tez skądś ma te tajne informacje,podejrzewam,że nie zawsze zdobyte z pierwszej ręki,a to co pani dalej z nimi robi to też temat na inną etykę

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="Dorota"><s>

</s> P.S Nie widzę różnicy czy pies zszedł naście czy kilka lat temu jeżeli przyczyna była ta sama.

</QUOTE>
A to dziwne bo jak mi wiadomo przyczyn zachorowania psów na nerki jest co najmniej kilka

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="Dorota"><s>

</s>Pani Halino rozumiem,że każdy zawsze chce mieć ostatnie zdanie jego prawo.

</QUOTE>
Straszne babsko wcale nie uzurpuje sobie prawa do ostatniego zdania
Każdy ma prawo mieć swoje zdanie, nawet jak ma nie wyparzoną jadaczkę, którą usiłuje mu się w niewybredny sposób zamknąć i wcale nie musimy się ze wszystkimi zgadzać

[Dorota]

<QUOTE author="Jaga"><s>

</s><QUOTE author="Dorota"><s>

</s> P.S Nie widzę różnicy czy pies zszedł naście czy kilka lat temu jeżeli przyczyna była ta sama.

</QUOTE>
A to dziwne bo jak mi wiadomo przyczyn zachorowania psów na nerki jest co najmniej kilka

</QUOTE>
Tak tylko dziwnym trafem tylko pani psy schodzą z powodów mniej ważnych.