Hodowla a zdrowie

[ediiiii]

<QUOTE author="HoRacy"><s>

</s><QUOTE author="MadMan"><s>

</s>
No właśnie - to wraca pytanie ładne czy zdrowe i ładne

</QUOTE>
Z mojej strony mogę powiedzieć że tak jak z przechodzeniem na pasach (lewo, prawo, lewo)
i przekładając na temat:
lewo - pies musi mi się podobać
prawo - pies musi być zdrowy
lewo - pies musi rokować że da szczeniakom to żeby mi się podobały

ps.
Przy jednym i drugim należy zachować szczególną ostrożność

</QUOTE>
miałam się nie odzywać, ale pomyślałam, pogadałam i ....eureka
HORACY!
Mądrzenie sie osoby z dwoma miotami pokrytymi (plus jeden zero) po znajmości za miedzą jakos nijak sie ma dla mnie do wiedzy. Chyba że chcesz mi powiedzieć że to były te najbardziej przemyslane wybory spośród wszystkich dostępnych repow, w tym angielskich- ze znakomitym eksterrierem, przekazem i zdrowiem
wiecej w tym szczescia niz rozumu a jak sie to ma do zdrowia i wygladu to zobaczymy
jedna jaskolka wiosny nie czyni...

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="aguś"><s>

</s>"może nie być nosicielem"- ale jednak jest dopuszczalna taka opcja, że jednak jest nosicielem- WARTO RYZYKOWAĆ??????????????????

</QUOTE>
Można sobie gdybać i wszyscy hodowcy tak gdybają bo hodowla bez badań genetycznych to rosyjska ruletka
<QUOTE author="Buteo"><s>

</s><QUOTE author="Jaga"><s>

</s>
<B><s></s>1/ </B>Nie napisałam, że w dalszych pokoleniach już poza rodowodem tylko w najbliższej rodzinie np. brat matki szczeniąt lub siostra ojca szczeniąt, dziadkowie itd.

</QUOTE>
to kim sa w stosunku do siebie belinda barkarola i magna morgana?

</QUOTE>
Czy ja komuś personalnie wyciągam w tej dyskusji nazwy psów z ich hodowli
I szczerze mówiąc z różnych względów wolałabym tego nie robić
<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s> Czy wszystkie szczenięta z miotu są na bierzaco badane

</QUOTE>
Czy wszystkie szczenięta z Pani hodowli są na bierząco kompleksowo badane

[Buteo]

jasne najlepiej mowic podobno,slyszalam,jaskolki cwierkaja,w hodowli X lub Y dajac do zrozumienie ze co sie wie,wtedy mozna byc takim waznym,wszechwiedzacym i dawac do zrozumienia to czy tamto

poza tym niczego nie wyciagam,wszystko jest na tym forum

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s> Sama Pani także napisała, że w Pani miotach nie trafiły sie szczenięta z chorobami i wadami genetycznymi, a potem Pani piszę, ze nie miały robionych badań, bo to dawno było. I nijak nie chce sie Pani do tego ustosunkować.

</QUOTE>
Napisałam, że nie miały robionego BAERa bo nie był dostępny, ale nie trafił się żaden głuchy szczeniak i że wymienione
przeze mnie wady nie wystąpiły u moich szczeniąt. Nic nie stoi na przeszkodzie, żeby hodowcy i właściciele robili badania swoim psom, zwłaszcza w wypadku wystąpienia pewnych chorób w hodowli i dalszego ich z niej eliminowania

[Jaga]

Dawać do zrozumienia tego czy tamtego też nie trzeba bo co jak co, ale poczta pantoflowa działa rewelacyjnie

W tym temacie ja nie robiłam personalnych wycieczek, natomiast na tym forum jest całe morze różnych wiadomości i całe mnóstwo "smakowitych kąsków"

[Wojtek - Lakonga]

Z badaniami to będzie przepychanka cały czas. Powstanie Klubu Bull Terriera uregulowałoby tą kwestię, ale nie ureguluje bo Klub nie powstanie. Przynajmniej ten z Forum. Więc mamy kwadraturę koła. Wiele kwesti spornych może uregulować podpisanie umowy pomiędzy nabywającym szczenie a hodowcą. Chodzi mi tu o umowę, która regulowałaby padnięcie szczeniaka, wykonanie sekcji i roszczeń ze strony nabywcy. Klub nie powstanie więc egzekwujcie od hodowców umowy. Jeśli hodowca odmówi zawarcia w umowie "rękojmi" to zastanówcie się dla czego hodowca nie chce podpisać takiej umowy. Być może ma coś do ukrycia. Co? To już się domyślcie.

Pozdrawiam serdecznie Wojtek

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s>Pani Halino. Z tego co wiem nie zamknęła Pani hodowli. Planuje Pani kryć jeszcze sukę. Dlaczego?? Przecież szczeniak z Pani miotu miał chore nerki..

</QUOTE>
Matka szczeniaka pomimo, że cieszy się dobrym zdrowiem nie będzie więcej rozmnażana

I jeszcze na koniec pesonalne pytanie - czy wszystkie szczeniaki z Pani hodowli cieszą się dobrym zdrowiem
Odpowiedzi raczej nie oczekuję
Skoro sobie już wszyscy całkiem sporo pogadali na temat nie w temacie to proponuję wrócić do zasadniczego tematu o polskich i czeskich bulterierach a moda proszę o posprzątanie tej gorącej dyskusji

[ediiiii]

<QUOTE author="Wojtek - Lakonga"><s>

</s>Z badaniami to będzie przepychanka cały czas. Powstanie Klubu Bull Terriera uregulowałoby tą kwestię, ale nie ureguluje bo Klub nie powstanie. Przynajmniej ten z Forum. Więc mamy kwadraturę koła. Wiele kwesti spornych może uregulować podpisanie umowy pomiędzy nabywającym szczenie a hodowcą. Chodzi mi tu o umowę, która regulowałaby padnięcie szczeniaka, wykonanie sekcji i roszczeń ze strony nabywcy. Klub nie powstanie więc egzekwujcie od hodowców umowy. Jeśli hodowca odmówi zawarcia w umowie "rękojmi" to zastanówcie się dla czego hodowca nie chce podpisać takiej umowy. Być może ma coś do ukrycia. Co? To już się domyślcie.
Pozdrawiam serdecznie Wojtek

</QUOTE>
czy Twoja Żona bedzie miała coś przecwiko jak powiem WOJTEK - jesteś CUDNY bo ująłeś sedno????
a na marginesie... który Hodowca z tych największych krzykaczy się na to zgodzi???

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="ediiiii"><s>

</s>a na marginesie... który Hodowca z tych największych krzykaczy się na to zgodzi???

</QUOTE>
Krzykacz pewnie się zgodzi a ci co siedzą cicho to cichcem wymienią na nowy model i będzie git

[AV]

Reasumując.

Nie odpowiada Pani wprost na moje pytania

Buteo napisał:

jasne Smile najlepiej mowic podobno,slyszalam,jaskolki cwierkaja,w hodowli X lub Y dajac do zrozumienie ze co sie wie,wtedy mozna byc takim waznym,wszechwiedzacym i dawac do zrozumienia to czy tamto Laughing

poza tym niczego nie wyciagam,wszystko jest na tym forum

Właśnie o to mi chodzi. Nie chodzi mi też o badania, udowadnianie komukolwiek, czegokolwiek w kwestii zdrowia szczyli z jego hodowli.

Chciałam się w jakiś sposób ustosunkować do Pani wypowiedzi na tym forum

Pisze Pani ogólnikami, neguje Pani wypowiedzi innych hodowców, robiąc w rzeczywistości to samo np.

Można sobie gdybać i wszyscy hodowcy tak gdybają bo hodowla bez badań genetycznych to rosyjska ruletka Idea

Zadawałam Pani pytania, na przykładach z Pani hodowli, pod kątem Pani wypowiedzi na forum Nie wiem który raz z kolei powtarzam to zdanie Ale najwidoczniej nie doczekam się prostych odpowiedzi, bez zbędnego mącenia..

[aguś]

Poczta pantoflowa jest jak wiadomo zawodna, każdy dopowiada co chce i fama leci w świat- ktoś dosyć rozumny wie, że nie jest to najlepsze źródło wiedzy, a Pani np z takiej hodowli o jakiej się MÓWI nie musi kupować szczeniaka, ani krzyżować swoich suk z psami z tej linii- to proste . Żaden z hodowców, któremu zależy na rasie nie będzie rozmnażał dla samej idei i durnych przesądów, że suka MUSI mieć szczeniaki, a pies MUSI kryć, dlatego więc ta rozmowa moim zdaniem prowadzi do nikąd. Pani ma swoje racje, a ktoś inny swoje, tylko mam nadzieję, że przez Pani racje nikt z potencjalnych nabywców nie zostanie wprowadzony w błąd, że szczeniaki z Pani przydomkiem są /będą wolne od WAD GENETYCZNYCH.

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s>Nie odpowiada Pani wprost na moje pytania

</QUOTE>
Pani też na moje pytania w kwestii swojej hodowli nie odpowiedziała

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="Jaga"><s>

</s><QUOTE author="Buteo"><s>

</s>jasne najlepiej mowic podobno,slyszalam,jaskolki cwierkaja,w hodowli X lub Y dajac do zrozumienie ze co sie wie,wtedy mozna byc takim waznym,wszechwiedzacym i dawac do zrozumienia to czy tamto
poza tym niczego nie wyciagam,wszystko jest na tym forum

</QUOTE>
Najlepiej to jest włożyć kij w mrowisko
Czasami jest to najlepszy z możliwych sposobów pisania i poruszania pewnych drażliwych tematów żeby nie wywoływać trzęsienia ziemi na forum bo mogłoby jeszcze nie daj Boże zostać poddane nagłej konserwacji lub zamknięte
Rozmowy telefoniczne bywają też czasami wybiórczo kontrolowane
Dawać do zrozumienia tego czy tamtego też nie trzeba bo co jak co, ale poczta pantoflowa działa rewelacyjnie
W tym temacie ja nie robiłam personalnych wycieczek, natomiast na tym forum jest całe morze różnych wiadomości i całe mnóstwo "smakowitych kąsków"

</QUOTE>
<B><s></s>Buteo dostał odpowiedź </B>

[Jaga]

<QUOTE author="AV"><s>

</s> <QUOTE><s>

</s>Można sobie gdybać i wszyscy hodowcy tak gdybają bo hodowla bez badań genetycznych to rosyjska ruletka

</QUOTE>

</QUOTE>
Takie są realia na dzień dzisiejszy w Polsce
Dziękuję Wojtkowi Lakondze za bardzo trafną wypowiedź
Początkowo byłam nastawiona sceptycznie do powstania Klubu BT (szczególnie forumowego), ale dochodzę do wniosku, że taki Klub z prawdziwego zdarzenia bardzo by się przydał bo może skończyłoby się zamiatanie śmieci pod dywan i hodowla miałaby jasne i proste zasady

[AV]

Pani Halino pisała pani:

Psy z dobrymi wynikami bywają również nosicielami wad i szczenięta mogą także zachorować po takich rodzicach (dziadkach)

więc dlatego pytałam co Pani przez to rozumie ale w dalszej częsci a propos Pani suki dowiedzieliśmy się że :

Nawet jeżeli jest spokrewniona to nie znaczy, że kiedykolwiek da chore szczeniaki bo genetyka rządzi się swoimi prawami

Owszem genetyka rządzi się własnymi prawami ale kimże jesteśmy, Pani jest, żeby stwierdzać tak autorytatywnie że ta suka nigdy nie da szczenięcia z jakąś chorobą genetyczną

I to nie chodzi o Pani sukę ,czy kowalskiego uważam że takie stwierdzenie jest mocno na wyrost owszem bez badań genetycznych nie rudzy jakakolwiek hodowla z miejsca dając w pełni zdrowe potomstwo jak również ładne. Jakie Pani ma rozwiązania na tu i teraz bo wiadomo że badania genetyczne są na razie czczym marzeniem

W jednym przypadku nawołuje Pani do odsuwania całych linii, w 2 [ swoim ] nie widzi Pani nic złego w kryciu blisko spokrewnionych suczek z których 1 dała chore nerki.

I jeszcze raz podkreślam, że napisała Pani wymieniając kilka chorób, że Pani szczeniaki nie są obciążone podobnymi lub innymi wadami genetycznymi

AV napisał:

Nie odpowiada Pani wprost na moje pytania

Pani też na moje pytania w kwestii swojej hodowli nie odpowiedziała Idea

Znowu mnie Pani zbywa. Ja nie twierdzę, że mam na 100% zdrowe psy, wolne od wad genetycznych Jak Pani myśli dlaczego badam co pól roku psy

Pytam o konkretne przypadki w Pani hodowli, cytując Pani wypowiedzi, ponieważ mam wrażenie, że Pani tok myślenia opiera się na trzech prawdach; Jeżeli coś dotyczy innej hodowli to jest cała prawda lub też prawda, ale już odnośnie Pani hodowli te same wypowiedzi zmieniają sie w g...no prawdę